Also Reagan.
Reconciliation was Lincoln’s blunder, but we can’t pin all the blame on him. The fact of the matter is the vast majority of the electorate has been purposefully dumbed down and lulled into a state of learned helplessness, while those who do manage to stay engaged are drawn into endless political culture wars that keep us divided down predictable party lines.
There are issues out there that 80-90% of Americans agree on, it’s just that no candidate can ever make a platform out of those popular ideas without getting dragged down into the mud of divisive rhetoric so that people can easily place them into a neat little box that predetermines if they hate them or not without thinking too much.
What bothers me most about this state of affairs is that almost everyone who looks at it immediately lays the blame at the feet of “the voters”, ignoring the fact that we’ve all been the victims of relentless and insidious propaganda for decades now.
Not only that, but we’ve also been the victims of constant, well-funded attacks against the core institutions that were meant to shield us against this sort of thing. Journalism is a joke now. Education is in shambles. Community engagement is the lowest it’s ever been. Our attention has been kidnapped by social media designed take and take and take from us without giving anything back.
But don’t think about that… Don’t ask why the voters are angry and ignorant and fearful and hateful. Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain.
1000% agree. We didn’t just end up this way by accident. We are all victims of a system that has been slowly and deliberately eroded to ensure maximum apathy. It’s not the voter’s fault that education, journalism, and social safeguards are hollowed out husks of what they used to be.
The frustrating part is that I don’t see a way out of it. There’s no easy or obvious solution to the problem. You can expose the man behind the curtain as many times as you like, but partisan politicians will always be playing defense for their team and all the many scandals and earth-shattering revelations will be reduced to a political disagreement, where for every narrative there must be a counter narrative that explains why the other people are wrong, even if it must fly in the face of observable truth.
Reconciliation was Lincoln’s blunder, but we can’t pin all the blame on him.
Hardly Lincoln’s blunder. Reconstruction was sabotaged by Andrew Johnson
That’s too many words with too many syllables, I’ve branded you as a conservative and my vote for Gavin Newsom has become even further entrenched. You heard me right, I know who I will be voting for next president 3-ish years ahead of schedule.
I am joking.
🤣
More emotionally satisfying to blame others than take responsibility plus we all get to keyboard warriors.
Even after J6 only the mob was punished. In a country like Spain or most European countries Trump and co would’ve been in prison immediately, awaiting their trial.
It sucks how 100% correct this is, honestly
I’d love to see the timeline where native Americans were left alone.
Orson Scott Card wrote a very satisfying book called Pastwatch that deals with the alternate timeline.
Just you know, death the author and all that.
Death of the author indeed. What a POS he turned out to be. 😒
There’s some deep psychology at play for a person who writes books dealing with bigotry, xenophobia and the worst human attitudes, but then reflects all of those traits himself. I don’t have the energy anymore to try to dissect it, at least he’s not a highly vocal billionaire trying to advocate for shit.
250 years of First-past-the-post voting system
No. Failure to act now. Blaming history is not acknowledging the now. It’s how we got here but the failure is in the now.
There is a weird division among populations who have a hard time distinguishing between historical analysis and understanding cause and effect, and thinking that it’s attributing blame and walking away.
We understand the past to prevent such problems in the future. (Ideally.)
“become” implies it was something else to begin with. it started as a cess pool when it allowed slavery to persist past the declaration of independence.
Why do you think they wanted independence?
It was the rich wanting to get more rich from the get go. Everything else was a smoke screen.
Agreed, but the reformation of the south was one of many chances our country had to turn things around and start actually practicing equality and democracy properly, and instead the country bent to the racists who wanted stable business. Some ideas just kept repeating for the following century and a half.
“We hold these truths to be self evident - that all men are created equal. But when I meet Thomas Jefferson, I’ma compel him to include women in the sequel, work!”.
Man that lyric slapped hard and I’m just now realizing that if it were the N-word, it’d slap hard but be horribly historically inaccurate, as Angelica Schuyler kept many slaves. As did Thomas Jefferson.
Now, Hercules Mulligan, on the other hand…also had slaves. Despite being a founding member of the New York Manumission Society, he also had a slave named Cato who would help him to gather intelligence.
Yes in a weird way, I take heart in knowing that America’s politics have been super fucked up for most of its history. I know that sounds odd but most people I know seem to think things have just suddenly turned bad recently. I think maybe they were born during a brief respite is all. And I do think that with the fuller context, the arc of history bends in the right direction, yes, albeit with famous latency.
also giving rural states too much representation, because they feared they get less.
“become a cesspool”
As if it wasn’t a settler colonial monstrosity built on genocide, slavery and massive violence from it’s very inception right through to the modern day (from “manifest destiny” to modern imperialism).
Sherman do it again
but in seriousness the failure of reconstruction destroyed america at its foundationUmmm and not the offshoring of blue collar jobs? Crushing unions? Regan tearing up political norms? Destruction of media fairness and killing of local news (News papers)?
This wasn’t an overnight transition, this is nearly 50 years of slow fracture of our society. Mostly led from the shadows by various religious groups that have a death cult mindset.
Anna Bocca on Youtube has some really good research on US economics through 20th Century.
I was surprised to learn that socialist ideas were popular in 30s due to Great Depression, with most pastors preaching mutual help, support, social support. Then the churches who preach individualism and chase for wealth got funding and newspaper space. Mfs literally redesigned American Christianity.
The division of the proletariat by Lost Cause lunacy at a time (and at a junction) where a greater commitment to unity was possible and labor radicalism was just gaining strength may have been terminal.
Oh for the love of God. Reducing the current political climate of the United States to “we didn’t punish the Confederate States of America hard enough” is the kind of historically illiterate, rage-bait nonsense that thrives online because it’s emotionally satisfying, not because it’s true.
Yes, Reconstruction after the American Civil War was mishandled. Yes, former Confederates regained power. Yes, Jim Crow laws were a moral stain and a catastrophic policy failure. All of that is real.
But to pretend that modern polarization, institutional decay, media fragmentation, algorithmic brain rot, primary-election extremism, and post–Citizens United v. FEC campaign finance insanity are somehow just delayed consequences of not lining enough people up against a wall in 1865 is obscene. It is cartoon history. It is Tumblr-tier cause-and-effect thinking.
America’s current dysfunction has proximate causes. Social media incentive structures. Partisan media silos. Gerrymandered districts. The aftershocks of the 2008 financial crisis. The political realignment of the South over decades. None of that is explained away by “we didn’t punish them hard enough.”
And let’s be honest about what that statement implies. It implies that mass punitive retribution 160 years ago would have somehow engineered a permanently virtuous republic. That is magical thinking. Nations are not firmware you can permanently patch with one decisive punishment event.
This is the kind of meme that sounds profound to people who consume history as morality theater instead of as institutional analysis. It’s outrage fuel. It’s not serious.
You want to critique Reconstruction policy? Fine. That’s a legitimate academic discussion. But boiling the entirety of 21st-century American political dysfunction down to one glib sentence about punishment is lazy, inflammatory, and historically unserious. We can do better than this. Or at least we should.
You are not putting two and two together.
Reconstruction was a failure because the south was too ignorant and stuck in their ways, while the north was tired of their bullshit and just didn’t want to deal with it anymore. So in the long run, culturally, the racism and ignorance never changed in the south.
“…polarization, institutional decay, media fragmentation, algorithmic brain rot, primary-election extremism, and post–Citizens United v. FEC campaign finance insanity…”
These are all the result of two main things; the massive amount of data now available that can be mined and used to predict behaviors and sociological outcomes. The incredible amounts of capital that has been created by those able to take advantage of that data. They literally know how to get people to react like monkeys pushing a button to get a treat. Every web page you visit, post you share…, every click you make is another data point that can be used to model your reactions and combined into a larger aggregate.
You can point that data weaponization at two things, money and politics. With money, you now have people who just stare at spreadsheets all day and make financial decisions based off models and data mining. They have already stripped all the easy wealth that can be stripped. For example, you can’t find a good deal on a used car, in an auto trader anymore. Things are priced not what they cost to make, plus a profit, but what people are willing to pay for them. That’s where the marketing comes in. They know what gets almost anyone to respond, so they tailor their marketing based off all this data they gather. And it works.
Shrinkflation, enshjitification, moving industry overseas to cheap labor, robotics, etc… None of these things have made products cheaper so much as they just made more profit for the shareholders. But now, its not even the people who own the shares but private equity. Blackrock, Bezos, Musk, Ellison, etc… they have so much wealth that it is a tiny fraction for them to pay someone else to figure out how to extract more. It’s not enough to own 65% (arbitrary number) of an industry, they have to constantly fight for each additional %. But they do, because they are no longer the ones doing it. They pay someone else to simp for their hoarding. They are not geniuses. (Clearly the opposite for some of them.) Some of them do have great success stories, but all of them came from wealth and without it they would be another Joe Schmoe.
Now you have these rich white men with massive amounts of wealth who think they are god’s gift to the human race. So they also grab for power, and in today’s world of data, money is quite literally turned directly into power.
You have a system that can convince people that a $1300 smart phone, that will last for 12-18 months before you start jonesing for an upgrade, is a smart purchase. That data is also used to convince people to vote a certain way, to believe a certain way.
Now that brings us back to the south.
People are already instinctively tribal. It is in our DNA. We are hard wired to be “us vs. them”. Racism is the underdeveloped two year old of tribalization. “You look different, so you must be different, and different is bad.” It is the one of the most basic institutions of ignorance. It doesn’t take a whole lot to think your way past it, but when you already believe, it is much easier to continue that belief than to challenge it.
That is a perfect recipe for manipulation and control. We now have true oligarchs supporting a madman because he was an easy sell to the largest group of voters.
The left will fracture itself, fighting over whats a better system of government, how to fight climate change, genocide, abortion, it goes on. The right just has to say, “We’re better than those people, vote for me and we’ll rise together.” They validate those ignorant tribal instincts.
Look at Cowbee. Dude (could be several people, who knows) is an arm of that. Shitty propaganda put forth in an environment they control, so there is no real dialogue or real ability to challenge. They are tribal and use it to try and sell a dumbass ideolgy and undermine others. Now imagine they had a billion dollars. They could pay an army of people like them to make a thousand soap boxes to drown out dissent or contrary thought. They play on your ignorance. They know you are not an expert, so they can make whatever wild claims they want, backed with premade arguments.
Or Charlie Kirk. That fucking douchebag. He made a career out of debating children. He had to learn what, 10 different arguments? His only real talent was to have zero shame. He was valuable to the people with the money. He would go out there and say the things they knew were lies because they profited from it and he didn’t care. And the morons would eat it up.
Lets take that back to Cowbee (sorry not sorry to pick on you). I have no idea who Cowbee is and they may be a sincere person who legitimately believes in what they say. Except their behavior has every ear mark of a Charlie Kirk style propagandist and so I immediately don’t trust anything they say. It is polished enough too, that part of me thinks they are actually a professional at it. Or they could really just believe that bullshit and spend 16 hours a day online.
Politicians have been playing that game for millennia at this point, but they never had the kind of tools that they do today.
And the lack of racial equity in this country, going way beyond even reconstruction, has prevented any real mobility for a non-white. It is just reconstruction on, when it is so much more obvious to see.
So by not stamping out the ignorance and hate, it was allowed to grow and become a ridiculously easy tool to abuse by those with the money to take advantage of it.
After race it is religion. Then sex. Then ideology, social standing, what football club you like…
If you look at my post you can see why I am terrible at this. I’m all over the place, thoughts aren’t fully justified, points aren’t very well made, I need to let it go about Cowbee…
But there are people that are good at this. Their technique is thoughtful, refined, and well funded. And they are so good at selling hate.
The same mentality that didn’t stomp out the south is the same mentality that lets MAGA get away with their bullshit.
You can link that all back to stopping reconstruction early…
But boiling the entirety of 21st-century American political dysfunction down to one glib sentence about punishment is lazy, inflammatory, and historically unserious. We can do better than this. Or at least we should.
I think you are way over analyzing the idea here, that it was the first of many major opportunities missed to start turning the country towards a more equal and progressive future, but our country has demonstrated over and over that it doesn’t actually want that.
If there WAS a huge show trial and hangings as their should have been, would that have altered the course of history? Maybe or maybe not, but it’s what should have fucking happened, and I kind of resent and suspect people who have to get on a soapbox to defend our failures of the past. We analyze the past to reduce harm in the future, ideally, so understand how useful this simplified message in this post could be towards that end before deciding you’re the main character who needs to set shit right.
Reconstruction was not mishandled, it went down exactly how the wealthy and those in power wanted it to. It set the standard for how those with means respond to crisis, buy low, sell high, stoke animosity for “others” among your voting base as if they are the source of their woes. The Gilded Age and Yellow Journalism came on the heels of the Civil War for a reason. Accountability for war would have been long, tedious, and if done legally would have fizzled because most people have lives that need attended to. By the time Davis or Lee was tried, appealed, retried, and hung most Americans would have moved on and barely read about it in the paper, their bloodlust simmered.
The technology may have changed but we are in the same loop. A substantial portion of the population has achieved social progress over the decades and either wants to push further, prevent regression, or see what they gained actualized. Wishing the Confederacy had been punished is an exercise in modern wishful thinking, pretending like if just one or two things were done differently we wouldn’t be where we are today. But I doubt it would look much different if we had hung leadership, or what, mass executed every soldier who wore a grey uniform?
And now that point is moot, they’re all dead, the shoulda/coulda/woulda of revenge is meaningless. If we want to break this cycle of crisis-elite power grab-discontent-blame your neighbor who is not like you, the source is not in just holding accountable the ones who become the faces of the fight, but all the quieter ones that gamble on both sides and then cash in when one wins without the rest of us noticing they were playing us all. Current leadership is just the metastasized ugliness of a disease that never gets treated. Removing it would only mean we didn’t have to see it in all its hideousness for a while, but it’d still come back with a new face.
Every last leader of the Confederacy could have been hung and we’d be in the same position we are today because Northern elites and power climbing Southerners would have bought up what they could and filled political offices with candidates that promise “vote for me and I’ll do X” but never deliver or “your grievances are with the other guy whose success is a loss you were entitled to”. If we don’t want to end up here again we have to use the lessons of Reconstruction (ie capitalism and it’s handful of elites don’t care about morals/social equity/justice) and get to the root of what makes any fight for progress so difficult and makes backsliding into tribalistic appeals to emotion so easy.
historically illiterate, rage-bait nonsense that thrives online because it’s emotionally satisfying, not because it’s true.
That pretty much sums up Lemmy. Much of the rhetoric around American history and politics is based on feelings.
I’ve said it before, the way things are presented are indinguishable from right wing rhetoric. The only difference is the goal. It’s all emotional dogmatic nonsense with no space for disagreement. Conform or be downvoted for wrong think.
Or maybe: Systematically disassembling of our education system by reducing funding, paying teachers less and removing programs that would otherwise teach our children to think.
When the only source of education is the tv and now internet, you can choose what you want to learn.
#eattherich
