Why would you call something “plant based” when it uses a lot of plastic which after short time degrades and exposes it to the environment?
It’s almost as if another common term for vegan leather is PU Leather
I thought the point of the stuff was to avoid killing animals.
As a vegan I avoid this by not using things that look like leather. I prefer cotton and linen clothing.
I do hobby-level leatherworking and I’m all here for real non-animal leathers but yeah, basically all of them, cactus, mango, pineapple leaf etc. all just get put on a PU backing…
I got excited for cork leather at one point but turns out that is also either PU backed or fabric backed (which is better but doesn’t really work as a direct replacement for leather, especially structurally).
There are a few I’m more excited for and I would love to get hold of but they still seem either experimental or used directly by the makers for their own finished products. Most are fungus based, so one is SCOBY leather, basically the big blob of microorganisms used to make kombucha can be grown in big flat sheets, dried and treated to make a leathery material but I’ve not seen many applications of it yet…
But mushroom/mycelial leather is the one I’m most hopeful for. Not only do some of them look like real leather but the random ‘grain’ of the mycelium has the potential to ape the natural fibrous grain of leather that gives it its strength. That is the one I’m really excited for.
That was interesting AF, actually. I’m hyped for shroom leather!
Yeah I’ve had it with Will’s Vegan Shoes. They use https://www.viridis-leather.it/faq.html and say it’s “bio-based leather” but if you go to the link:
Is it recycled, recyclable or biodegradable?
No, it’s not but it expresses its sustainable content because it’s mainly produced using by-products from corn and wheat instead of petrolium based products. Bio polyols always available as renewable resources.
Which type of PU is Viridis® made of?
43 % of PU made using polyols coming from corn and wheat, 31 % of normal PU.
Cause they know fools love buzzz words. That’s why I couldn’t find margarine until I realized it’s now “plant butter”
I think everything labeled “plant butter” is vegan, whereas “margarine” can contain both plant and animal fats. I don’t think that’s regulated, but I think that’s how those terms are used in practice. I always check the labels just to be sure, of course.
YSK: Cellulose can be made extremely durable and water resistent. The wallet I’ve been using for a decade now is made of cellulose. The stitching was kinda bad from the start, so I’ve had to repair it once. But the material itself is still holding stong. And it feels nice and is very grippy.
“TreeLeather” or something like that, was 1 brand of the cellulose “leather” stuff…
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i was gonna say “what about pineapple leather” but yeah nope, it’s got PLA in it…
No hate, but leather and pb leather is gross to us idk how people like it. The texture is eugh
Because it is made from plant based materials? Like some LEGO parts are nowadays made from plant based materials.
Plants -> Ethanol -> Plastic
Polyurethane is made by (among other steps) mixing paint thinner and phosgene gas. It’s a nasty dangerous process.
The only time plants are involved is when they mix in some fiber pulp at the end.
Plant based plastics exist, but they are not polyurethane.
Ah, OK. TIL.
I can’t stress enough how much heavy lifting the phrase “among other steps” is doing here.
I don’t really understand all the hate/cynicism towards vegan leather. Like yeah obviously plastic is bad for the environment, but raising cows and dumping thousands of tons of chromium into rural waterways for the tanning process aren’t good either. Leather is actually far worse for the environment by some metrics.
Plus there’s the fact that most leather is sealed with plastic/acrylic to increase its longevity anyway, unless you’re buying something wicked expensive.
It must be pretty hard to understand if you don’t think about it too hard.
Plastic is just as bad for the environment, not to mention people’s health, as those cows.
You clearly haven’t chugged chromium water
Chromium-based tanning is only 1 kind of tanning, but yeah, chromium’s one of those chemicals which needs to be limited more-carefully, among our ecologies.
Vegetable-based tanning also exists, & I’m no expert, so there could be multiple way I don’t know about.
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Vegan leather is what they call plastic imitation leather nowadays
And it’s fucking terrible compared to real leather. It’ll start flaking or cracking after a year, it’s fucking dangerous around fire, it offers no fucking insulation or protection, it’s shit.
A problem in the fire performer community is that novices will grab it thinking it’s the same as real leather, or because they oppose real leather, and we always have to pull them aside and give em a stern talk about how dangerous it is
I had a pair of boots that I used 9 months a year in Swedish climate for roughly 10 years without a hitch. They also went for hikes in Costa Rica and across India and Nepal. At the end they looked worn but were still functional as I swapped them out for another pair of vegan leather boots.
I’ve had other vegan shoes that lasted a lot shorter but that can be said about my animal skin shoes as well.
Modern bio-leather causes about 10% off the emissions leather does and doesn’t have the same tanning process which is extremely toxic.
Not saying that vegan is strictly better, but rumours of it’s crappiness are severely out of date.
I definitely haven’t had the same experience. Anything I get that is pleather ends up breaking down sooner rather than later (especially thrifted pleather). Hell, my favorite pair of pleather pants recently lost a dish sized area by the crotch, and those were bought new from a brand I trust. Virtually every pair of pleather boots has ended up in the trash. I have a long pleather skirt that basically ripped from floor to waist that I’m still deciding whether to fix or not.
I will add the disclaimer that I’m an experienced leatherworker which affects my bias
I rarely get real leather new, and when it fails it’s rarely the actual leather. I have a jacket I thrifted about a decade ago that is still going strong, though I’ve had to replace the buttons a few times. My most recent leather boots survived multiple camping trips and heavy use, until the plastic zipper broke. Even my leatherwork mainly uses repurposed scraps. At this point my partner and I refuse to buy/use a daily purse that is anything but leather because of how long it lasts. It’s worth repairing leather, it’s not worth repairing pleather.
Ive had it in my car for 7 years and zero flaking and feels great. Thats definitely specific to the quality you have.
I recall the term being pleather. Plastic leather.
Technically if they are organic matter compressed over eons into polycarbons, they’re still dinosaurs, so not vegan
Well a lot of it turns out to be dead trees not dinosaurs, but I’m sure I’ll get “um actually” but someone who is a bigger expert
Coal is from trees. Oil is from bacterial mats.
“Well. There it is.”
I guess petroleum came from plant.
Not all plant based leather uses plastic. It’s unfortunate that plant+plastic mixes are allowed to call themselves plant based leather.
“Real” leather (A.K.A. someone else’s skin) is also usually coated in plastic and processed with extremely harmful chromium salts, so it’s usually not any better than the worst leather alternative.
And veg tan? I try not to use chrome tan in stuff I make for both environmental reasons and the fact its a pain to work with but we have been veg tanning for thousands of years.
we’ve (as human) been doing things for thousands of years, which was barely noticeable because there were less than a billion of us until the 1800s, less than 400 million until 1400s and the obvs even less before
While the conclusion of this argument is valid your premises don’t follow a logical sequence. Firstly, leather is defined as a material obtained from rawhide which is tanned (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather) - this is real leather, there is no need for calls to ignorance here.
Secondly, what do mean by referring to “someone else’s”? Because the common usage for such statements usually mean human, not non-human animals. This essentially looks like an emotional appeal at this point.
Thirdly, you state that it is common for leather to be coated in plastic. While this is technically correct - as large portion of the market is composed of reusing scraps, it dismisses leather production from virgin rawhide and processes using vegetable or synthetic tanning which don’t need plastic for the resultant product.
Herdbeasts are sentient: they are “others”.
They don’t want to be slaughtered: we care more about using meat from their bodies for a momentary meal than we care about their lives-themselves.
That is OUR values.
& our being sociopathic doesn’t make sociopathy universally-right or universally-valid.
( I’m not vegan, but universe has beaten learning into me until I’ve come around to seeing the prejudice in our whole “civilized” “relationship” with reality )
TTBOMK, vegetable-tanning isn’t done as much because it costs more.
& the original person’s comment about chromium-salts looks spot-on, & was ignored by your counter.
Just pointing out some stuff for objectivity, is all: integrity’s a precious-resource, & it takes all of us being loyal to it, to make it remain in our world.
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You’d be shocked what they allow to be called leather. I expect the environmental impact of leather is far worse than the production of vinyl. Tanning is pretty nasty.
Polyurethane couldn’t sell the couches because it simply as sexy as plant-based leather.
