Pigs are great creatures, there is nothing wrong with bonding with a pig, anymore than bonding with a dog. The ones in the concentration camps though, it would break your heart seeing them, it’s disgusting. I’m not against eating pork, if raised the old way, on a farm, can run around, root for insects, eat acorns in the fall, come back to the barn. I will not keep buying pork from these concentration camps, they are truly disgusting places.
Pigs are great creatures
I agree. Especially bacon, ham shanks and sausages.
If she doesn’t eat any creature that feels pain, that doesn’t mean she’s a vegan. She might be a vegan, but that statement makes her a vegetarian by most definitions.
And he’s snuggling with pigs on pig farms. I think there are some people who would say that such actions are only possible on exploited pigs who are headed for the slaughterhouse, and therefore, because he has made himself part of the meat system, he wouldn’t be a vegan, either.
I’m not a vegan either, but I find it weird that SMBC would use that word so loosely in a strip where the definition of “vegan” is so central.
And he’s snuggling with pigs on pig farms. I think there are some people who would say that such actions are only possible on exploited pigs who are headed for the slaughterhouse, and therefore, because he has made himself part of the meat system, he wouldn’t be a vegan, either.
What on earth? That’s like saying that activists who give water to pigs in slaughterhouse trucks aren’t vegan because “they’ve made themselves part of the meat system.”
You can snuggle pigs that aren’t headed to the slaughterhouse, so in no way does such an action necessitate or expedite harm to animals.
deleted by creator
Maybe they did it intentionally to further annoy vegetarians/vegans.
Also, despite any form of consciousness they might have is alien to us, plants very likely experience pain. They also communicate and engage in nutrition transactions with fungi through root systems.
It’s great that people try to be nicer to other living things but reality is no matter what we do to survive as human beings, we will cause some suffering and death, like it or not.
Also, despite any form of consciousness they might have is alien to us, plants very likely experience pain
No. They have a response to stress, which is wildly different from experiencing pain. And that’s what your source is about.
Your source refers neither to the word “pain” nor to the word “experience”. Please don’t mislead people with your own misinterpretations.
I’ll try but no promises.
It’s really easy. If you don’t know, don’t make claims. You got this.
Please don’t mislead me by depositing hope in me, my ability to follow basic instructions and/or my mental faculties, even if joking. Now you’re just being cruel.
The vegan philosophy isn’t an all-or-nothing never wanting to cause any pain philosophy. It’s a philosophy of reducing suffering as much as reasonably possible while being able to still live your own life.
But any argument about plants feeling pain is completely sideways to that whole issue anyways, because farm animals eat more plants per calorie than when humans eat plants directly. Those farm animals need to use some of the plant calories for sustaining their own life, which will not make it into the meat, egg or milk. Even if you hate animals and love plants, you have to snack on plants to cause as little harm to plants as possible.
Plants don’t “feel pain”. The entire concept of “pain” is alien to everything without a central nervous system.
Plants DO however react to stressful external stimuli. They do that in a way, that we will never be able to relate to.
Some publications use words as “pain” and “suffering” in that context in order to go give non-academic folks something to relate. But on a scientific level, these terms are irrelevant at best.
There is nothing to be said with any certainty about the subjective experience of any of consciousness other than our own. You (and philosophers and scientists) can keep guessing as much as you want, though, and keep pretending to be sure.
Read my second sentence again.
The thing I am SURE about is, that using words and concepts from one area and postulating that they are applying in the same sense in another area, just because we found some loose similarity or similar trait, is logically not sound. See False-Equivalence
Our understanding of “pain” only makes sense when applying it to beings with a nervous system, because this word describes just THAT.
It’s like talking about hair and hairstyles and then applying the derived insights to birds, because their feathers “remind” us of hair.
It just doesn’t apply. Other contexts require dedicated concepts that are not “loaded” by using termina from irrelevant concepts.
Emotive language does not help your argument. It weakens any validity it might have otherwise.
Good for you. Have a a nice day.
Have a nice day too! 👋
scrape sheet of metal with scissors
loud noise and sparks
my god… it’s screaming… minerals feel pain…
You joke, but I have more respect for panpsychism than assuming the phenomenon of consciousness is only in ourselves and things that think / have nervous systems similar to our own exclusively.
How do you know that the minerals don’t enjoy being smelted?
I don’t.
But what’s the point (in a manner of speaking, I know natural selection isn’t guided by intent) of pain? It’s there to provide negative feedback and train you to avoid the painful thing. What purpose would pain serve in a sedentary organism?
I’m aware that evolution doesn’t only preserve positive traits, but where in the history of plant development would using the calories to perceive and process pain have helped an ancestor survive?
ugh, I inadvertently deleted the edits, but things came up on my end and I’m not as motivated anymore
purpose is a made up thing that only exists within subjectivity.
people would literally rather turn into blitzed out new age panspiritualists than agree with a vegan that killing a cow isn’t equivalent to peeling a potato
Have you considered how delicious cows are though?
Yeah, but spending a bunch of calories on something that doesn’t bring you a benefit.
I actively struggled with trying to describe this without ascribing intent to either natural selection or plants, but I’m just making my point badly. I independently conceived of it, though assume it’s not an original thought, so maybe if I get the time I’ll try to look for it.
maybe you’re not considering collective benefit / kin selection.
clearly, especially since it’s rhetorically convenient for you
an animal with a nervous system entirely analogous to ours and a plant that has crackly bubbles in its cells when it’s low on water or damaged? the same thing, actually. identical. there is no difference between things, and if you think there are then clearly you’re just a hypocritical vegan
I mean not necessarily hypocritical or even wrong. Just possibly irreflexive or vain.
don’t you think that’s a funny thing to say when you’re building your entire metaphysical conception of the world around not having to change or question your lifestyle
Coming from you, extremely.
I’m not sure what you mean by “crackly bubbles”. Many plants (possibly most of them) use electrochemical signaling, which at the very least resembles the hormonal system in animals. The simplest animals are definitely less complex, neural processing wise, than the most complex plants – consider for example sponges (literally no nervous system of any kind) vs. the venus flytrap (capable of rudimentary counting; the trap only closes when the hairs are triggered a certain number of times within a certain timeframe).
There’s also tons of animals whose nervous systems aren’t at all similar to that of humans. Insects and arthropods for example don’t really have a brain, just lumps of ganglia that do some rudimentary processing, and unsurprisingly most people don’t really consider insects to be capable of having any kind of meaningful sentient internal experience.
the article they posted to back up plants “feeling pain” anthropomorphises bubbles popping in the fibres of damaged plants as “crying”, which is apparently proof for plant sentience
Not proof, just interesting to think about.
Milk isn’t a creature and doesn’t feel pain
Getting the milk from almost perpetually pregnant cows is another story tho
perpetually pregnant cows
Milk and veal, double win.
Yup
I was being petty about the formulation
Well, only virgin unpressed snail malk
