Wow, we’ve reached “I know you are but what am I.” While once again completely ignoring a valid point on no basis. You literally said, “So, he created terror among the Romulans? They sure didn’t seem terrified to me,” and now you’re doubling down on calling arguing against that a “strawman.”
No, he was a senator, his crew were the private crew of a senator.
And? That in no way makes them not count as “the public.”
Absolutely insane that your argument here is “it doesn’t count as terrorism because he targeted a political figure.” Targeting a political figure makes it more obviously terrorism!
Terrorism is the use of violence against the general public to change behaviours or policies. The reason it is called terrorism is that it works via terror. The threat is that the attacks will continue until the changes are made. So, the general public are terrified that they’ll be hurt in the next attack.
In the case of Garrack, the target isn’t the general public, nor is the assassination in an area near the general public, nor are there meaningful casualties other than the prime target. Already this disqualifies it as being terrorism. Nobody is going to be afraid that the next attack is going to hurt them because they’re not likely to be flying out of Romulan space on a diplomatic mission. There’s no worry that they might be next, so there’s no terror.
In addition, if Garrack is a terrorist, what are his demands as a terrorist? When does he make it clear that he’s behind the attack, and that similar attacks will happen unless his aims are achieved?
That’s literally just a clip from the episode lmao. That’s not “the DS9 team” saying it wasn’t terrorism.
Terrorism is the use of violence against the general public to change behaviours or policies.
Here’s the definition google gives me:
Terrorism is the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, to instill fear and coerce governments or societies to achieve political, religious, or ideological goals. While no single, universally accepted definition exists, it commonly involves premeditated violence, targets non-combatants, and seeks to influence a broader audience beyond the immediate victims
Every single element of that definition is met by Garak’s actions. You’re trying to shift definitions (both from the generally accepted meaning, and from your earlier claims where you said that it wasn’t terrorism because people “didn’t seem terrified”) and arbitrarily claiming targeting politicians somehow makes it not count. There is absolutely no requirement that the victims of an act of terrorism must not be political figures.
Nobody is going to be afraid that the next attack is going to hurt them because they’re not likely to be flying out of Romulan space on a diplomatic mission
Again, complete nonsense. It’s not about whether people are “afraid the next attack is going to hurt them.” That has absolutely nothing to do with it. In your mind, do you think rural farmers in Montana watched an attack on the financial center of New York and thought, “Oh my god, they could’ve just as easily decided to go after my farm!”
And again - the Romulans literally do think that the next attack is going to hurt them! That’s why they go to war with the Dominion! Because the point of Garak’s actions is to convince them that the Dominion is a threat to Romulus itself! Not just shuttles transporting politicians!
You are wrong on so many levels that even if your completely incorrect premises were true, you’d still be wrong!
In addition, if Garrack is a terrorist, what are his demands as a terrorist? When does he make it clear that he’s behind the attack, and that similar attacks will happen unless his aims are achieved?
None of those are requirements for terrorism, even by your own definition.
What Garrack did isn’t terrorism. It was a false flag assassination.
What Bin Laden did wasn’t terrorism, it was hijacking. Or is it possible that a thing can be both terrorism and another thing at the same time?
His goal wasn’t even to cause fear in anyone. It was to get the Romulans to believe the evidence he planted that the Dominion were planning to invade Romulus.
And he wanted them to believe that evidence in order to cause fear that the Dominion would attack them.
There’s nothing about what happened that even comes close to terrorism.
You have to be trolling, there is no possible way for you to be this dumb. Even if you wanted to argue that it “technically” isn’t terrorism by some bullshit made-up pedantry, it’s obviously at least “close” to terrorism.
That’s literally just a clip from the episode lmao. That’s not “the DS9 team” saying it wasn’t terrorism.
Did you think it was real? These are the officers of DS9 on a show called DS9 saying it isn’t terrorism, saying instead it was assassination.
Again, complete nonsense. It’s not about whether people are “afraid the next attack is going to hurt them.”
Wow. Ok, so when people are terrorized in terrorism, what is it they’re afraid of? Spiders?
do you think rural farmers in Montana watched an attack on the financial center of New York and thought, “Oh my god, they could’ve just as easily decided to go after my farm!”
YES!
Even before the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19, 1995, and the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, many farmers had concerns about biosecurity and agroterrorism. Since 9/11, agroterrorism has garnered more national attention. Eighty percent of the farmers who responded to a 2002 Internet survey indicated that they expect some form of agroterrorism to occur in the United States.
But, even if the farmers hadn’t been scared, there’s no requirement that every member of the public be scared. Do you want to claim that regular people in NYC weren’t scared about another attack? Or people working in tall buildings in Los Angeles? That’s a key aspect whenever it’s terrorism, the general public is afraid of another terrorist attack. If you disagree, find an example of a terrorist attack in which the general public is not at all concerned that they’re in danger from another attack.
the Romulans literally do think that the next attack is going to hurt them!
No, they don’t. They don’t think there will be another shuttle-bombing attack. There was a specific reason that they believed that shuttle was bombed, and it was because the shuttle was carrying information that the Dominion didn’t want to get into Romulan hands.
In addition, if Garrack is a terrorist, what are his demands as a terrorist? When does he make it clear that he’s behind the attack, and that similar attacks will happen unless his aims are achieved?
None of those are requirements for terrorism, even by your own definition.
By your definition they are. A terrorist attempts to “coerce governments or societies to achieve political, religious, or ideological goals”, so Garrack, the terrorist surely communicated his goals to the Romulans, and warned them that unless they did as he demanded, there would be further terrorist attacks.
If you don’t think that a terrorist communicating their demands is a key part of terrorism, find an example of a terrorist attack in which the public had no idea what the demands were.
What Bin Laden did wasn’t terrorism
What Bin Laden did was terrorism because:
He used violence against the general public
He took credit for that violence
He made his demands clear for the attacks to stop
Compare that to Garrack.
He used violence against a single person and his immediate staff (i.e. an assassination), the public wasn’t threatened
He never took credit for that violence, in fact, he tried to pretend it wasn’t him
He never made any demands
What he did was a political assassination, as part of a false flag operation.
Compare that to what the US did to Japanese General Yamamoto.
They used violence against a single person and his immediate staff (i.e. an assassination), the public wasn’t threatened
They took credit, it wasn’t a false flag
They never made any demands, other than the continuing demand that Japan surrender
Unless you’re going to label anything that involves violence as terrorism, what Garrack did is nothing like terrorism.
Is it terrorism when a soldier shoots an enemy soldier in a war? It makes nearby soldiers scared, so it’s terrorism, that’s your definition right?
And he wanted them to believe that evidence in order to cause fear that the Dominion would attack them
That’s not how the “fear” part of terrorism works. In a terrorist attack, you are made to fear another terrorist attack, and if you know that if you meet certain demands, the attacks will stop.
You have to be trolling, there is no possible way for you to be this dumb.
Says the guy who posted a definition of terrorism that clearly doesn’t apply in this case, and yet still keeps arguing that this was terrorism.
I’m done engaging with your stupid bullshit. If you want to keep talking nonsense, tell it to someone else. I find it hard to believe how anyone else on the planet would agree with you.
Because you know you have no leg to stand on. You post the definition of terrorism, I show that what happens doesn’t meet your own definition, and now you give up trying to defend your point of view.
I’m not “giving up trying to defend my point of view.” I’ve already demonstrated that you’re full of shit on multiple levels and you just keep throwing shit at the wall hoping something sticks and I’m tired of proving you wrong over and over again.
I already refuted like three of your positions. Every time you shift the goalposts and call it a “strawman” and if I refute your new position you’ll do the same, because you’re a clown.
Wow, we’ve reached “I know you are but what am I.” While once again completely ignoring a valid point on no basis. You literally said, “So, he created terror among the Romulans? They sure didn’t seem terrified to me,” and now you’re doubling down on calling arguing against that a “strawman.”
And? That in no way makes them not count as “the public.”
Absolutely insane that your argument here is “it doesn’t count as terrorism because he targeted a political figure.” Targeting a political figure makes it more obviously terrorism!
No, that makes it assassination. That’s exactly what the DS9 team says happened.
Terrorism is the use of violence against the general public to change behaviours or policies. The reason it is called terrorism is that it works via terror. The threat is that the attacks will continue until the changes are made. So, the general public are terrified that they’ll be hurt in the next attack.
In the case of Garrack, the target isn’t the general public, nor is the assassination in an area near the general public, nor are there meaningful casualties other than the prime target. Already this disqualifies it as being terrorism. Nobody is going to be afraid that the next attack is going to hurt them because they’re not likely to be flying out of Romulan space on a diplomatic mission. There’s no worry that they might be next, so there’s no terror.
In addition, if Garrack is a terrorist, what are his demands as a terrorist? When does he make it clear that he’s behind the attack, and that similar attacks will happen unless his aims are achieved?
What Garrack did isn’t terrorism. It was a false flag assassination. His goal wasn’t even to cause fear in anyone. It was to get the Romulans to believe the evidence he planted that the Dominion were planning to invade Romulus. There’s nothing about what happened that even comes close to terrorism.
That’s literally just a clip from the episode lmao. That’s not “the DS9 team” saying it wasn’t terrorism.
Here’s the definition google gives me:
Every single element of that definition is met by Garak’s actions. You’re trying to shift definitions (both from the generally accepted meaning, and from your earlier claims where you said that it wasn’t terrorism because people “didn’t seem terrified”) and arbitrarily claiming targeting politicians somehow makes it not count. There is absolutely no requirement that the victims of an act of terrorism must not be political figures.
Again, complete nonsense. It’s not about whether people are “afraid the next attack is going to hurt them.” That has absolutely nothing to do with it. In your mind, do you think rural farmers in Montana watched an attack on the financial center of New York and thought, “Oh my god, they could’ve just as easily decided to go after my farm!”
And again - the Romulans literally do think that the next attack is going to hurt them! That’s why they go to war with the Dominion! Because the point of Garak’s actions is to convince them that the Dominion is a threat to Romulus itself! Not just shuttles transporting politicians!
You are wrong on so many levels that even if your completely incorrect premises were true, you’d still be wrong!
None of those are requirements for terrorism, even by your own definition.
What Bin Laden did wasn’t terrorism, it was hijacking. Or is it possible that a thing can be both terrorism and another thing at the same time?
And he wanted them to believe that evidence in order to cause fear that the Dominion would attack them.
You have to be trolling, there is no possible way for you to be this dumb. Even if you wanted to argue that it “technically” isn’t terrorism by some bullshit made-up pedantry, it’s obviously at least “close” to terrorism.
Did you think it was real? These are the officers of DS9 on a show called DS9 saying it isn’t terrorism, saying instead it was assassination.
Wow. Ok, so when people are terrorized in terrorism, what is it they’re afraid of? Spiders?
YES!
https://www.extension.purdue.edu/eden/ruralsecurity/threats.html
But, even if the farmers hadn’t been scared, there’s no requirement that every member of the public be scared. Do you want to claim that regular people in NYC weren’t scared about another attack? Or people working in tall buildings in Los Angeles? That’s a key aspect whenever it’s terrorism, the general public is afraid of another terrorist attack. If you disagree, find an example of a terrorist attack in which the general public is not at all concerned that they’re in danger from another attack.
No, they don’t. They don’t think there will be another shuttle-bombing attack. There was a specific reason that they believed that shuttle was bombed, and it was because the shuttle was carrying information that the Dominion didn’t want to get into Romulan hands.
By your definition they are. A terrorist attempts to “coerce governments or societies to achieve political, religious, or ideological goals”, so Garrack, the terrorist surely communicated his goals to the Romulans, and warned them that unless they did as he demanded, there would be further terrorist attacks.
If you don’t think that a terrorist communicating their demands is a key part of terrorism, find an example of a terrorist attack in which the public had no idea what the demands were.
What Bin Laden did was terrorism because:
Compare that to Garrack.
What he did was a political assassination, as part of a false flag operation.
Compare that to what the US did to Japanese General Yamamoto.
Unless you’re going to label anything that involves violence as terrorism, what Garrack did is nothing like terrorism.
Is it terrorism when a soldier shoots an enemy soldier in a war? It makes nearby soldiers scared, so it’s terrorism, that’s your definition right?
That’s not how the “fear” part of terrorism works. In a terrorist attack, you are made to fear another terrorist attack, and if you know that if you meet certain demands, the attacks will stop.
Says the guy who posted a definition of terrorism that clearly doesn’t apply in this case, and yet still keeps arguing that this was terrorism.
I’m done engaging with your stupid bullshit. If you want to keep talking nonsense, tell it to someone else. I find it hard to believe how anyone else on the planet would agree with you.
Because you know you have no leg to stand on. You post the definition of terrorism, I show that what happens doesn’t meet your own definition, and now you give up trying to defend your point of view.
I’m not “giving up trying to defend my point of view.” I’ve already demonstrated that you’re full of shit on multiple levels and you just keep throwing shit at the wall hoping something sticks and I’m tired of proving you wrong over and over again.
You haven’t demonstrated anything, other than your inability to read a definition and understand it.
I already refuted like three of your positions. Every time you shift the goalposts and call it a “strawman” and if I refute your new position you’ll do the same, because you’re a clown.