I’m tired of this false notion that we are all sinners and that we should rejoice in it by embracing debauchery
It still puts us all in the framework of religion and says that our life is not good or that we are bad people. It doesnt reclaim the word to call ourselves sinners.
Unpopular opinion only because none of us know what the hell you’re talking about. So… Congrats? Meet other people sounds like.
Well I did figure this would be an unpopular opinion. Why else post here
Literally no one has ever said that to me, and I make Dorian Gray look like a Mennonite.
Well I don’t live like that and I do hear it, so I guess its how close you get to the catholics and former catholics.
I was forced to (European) catholic schools until 18, never heard this. I did see my share of gruesome anti-abortion videos though.
deleted by creator
I mean literally the biggest show from YouTube to amazon was Hazbin Hotel, a show that is a super loose parable to how all us poors are in hell.
Ghost, The Good Place, even Supernatural said that god abandoned us and the demons had come to earth.
If you aren’t seeing the media calling us sinners and the counter culture trying to dance in it then you haven’t been paying attention.
If that’s your takeaway from any of those shows, you might wanna get some better media literacy.
Well Ghost is a band not a show, and want to help me with media literacy on Haxbin Hotel?
The good place was in the end about how unfair the world is and how we have to make little efforts to be better to not all be stuck in hell. I mean this is still all in the language of us being sinners naturally by existence. Statements that all still base themselves on us being viewed in a catholic framework. A thing that is so prevalent in our world.
deleted by creator
Everyone I talk to on a daily basis hates everything. I havent heard a good thing about the general future in a long time.
I mean yeah. Basically I see 3 types. Those that know things are fucked and are depressed. Those that deny reality and say we are in hell and need to be cleansed and those that say we are in hell and need to dance in it and not care so much.
Its basically those that are formerly religious using it as an excuse to be apathetic. But its everywhere where that is true and there are a lot of religious.
You seem to live to close to very religious people.
The world is full of the religious. Even those that aren’t, have parents that were just a generation ago.
I work with lots of clients, have religious friends and family, but I can basically forget that religion exists at all. Maybe it’s a skill issue.
Yes, and I am as atheist as we come. Still I have no issue with people’s own belief. However what you say sounds like you’re close to some extremes.
- The framing that “we’re all sinners” is actually sneaky:
what it’s really saying, is that we’re all inherently sinners, & purification is a pointless intent.
-
“we live in hell” … no, we don’t: wait until the 3rd yang-stage of The Great Filter, & THEN hell’ll be on Earth. We haven’t even got in the 1st yang-stage, yet!
-
happiness can be centered on external-basis, like Instagram, or possessions, or social-attention, or whatever, XOR happiness can be internally-centered, on intrinsic-nature ( earned, not just happenstance/luck ), & that difference is what separates the unconscious from the conscious/evolved.
-
You’re spot-on by identifying the problem with “give up: embrace debauchery”: it’s actually an intent which creates greater-future-suffering, both at individual-scale, global-scale, & reincarnation-scale.
-
religion is just an ideology-veneer on actuality: universe recycles continuums & meanings, exactly as it does matterial-energy & plain/massless energy, but the “religious” rendition of that is, e.g. in the root-guru of the Christian’s religion’s words, “what a continuum/soul sows, that continuum/soul reaps” ( it simply doesn’t match evidence, if the only-single-incarnation frame-of-reference is held, & once the all-of-eternity/universe-perpetually-recycling-all-energies perspective is adopted, then it’s inescapable ).
To throw-away all the religiosity-gunk, one ends-up with: “continuums/souls which emit meanings, have to reabsorb those meanings”, which … isn’t what ideology is made-of, is it?
-
“hell” is a sentience-state, not a real-estate-location: people being destroyed by abuse are in hell. People enjoying enforcing abuse that is destroying someone, are in false-heaven. They are states, not locations.
-
Continuums/souls are emitted by OriginOfAllSouls, and are “children” of it. OriginOfAllSouls is what some call G-D. The ancient-Jewish label for G-D, “Adonai Elohim” included the information that it is MADE OF souls: Elohim means roughly “spirits, plural, male”, but the “male” part was just their prejudice ( presuming that souls/continuums are animal-male is idiocy: their language-formed-minds wouldn’t permit them to understand the truly-beyond-form/truly-beyond-animal-nature of the truth, is all ), but the “spirits/souls” part & the “plural” part are both accurate: OceanOfAllAwakeSouls is … zillions of 'em. It is unitary, AND it is infinitude, simultaneously.
Since the Jews ditched that name for their G-D, there’s no remaining identification, in the Abrahamic religions ( that I know-of ) of that specific nature of G-D.
But the Dharmic religions, of the Indian subcontinent, have that meaning still available in them.
When one’s continuum/soul “returns home” to use the “Prodigal Son” parable’s symbol/label, one’s continuum “dissolves, like a drop of essence-of-water into an infinite-ocean-of-essence-of-water, becoming indivisible-from-all”, so there’s no separateness-from-G-D/separateness-from-OceanOfAllAwakeSouls/OceanOfAllBuddhas ( Buddha means AwakeSoul ), anymore.
- Given that one’s continuum/soul’s ultimate-fate is to “return home”, then to identify its nature as inherently-sinner is outright-wrong: its most-fundamental-nature is CellOfG-D/ChildOfG-D ( not incarnations being “children of G-D”: our lives are grandchildren not children of G-D, & getting that wrong has produced many wars ).
So, what some call BuddhaNature, others ( Abrahamic-Religion types ) would call Divine-Spark, or Divine-Truth, or Divine-Nature, underlying all the guck of ignorance & karma, see?
So, it’s actually the opposite, that is true: we’re temporarily sinners, & our outgrowing being sinners is what our soul’s origin, G-D, asks of us.
I don’t remember who it was who pointed this out, but iirc they were Hindu.
There are many important & profound insights in many different religions, & not 1 of them has any “exclusive monopoly” on G-D’s countless truths.
Anyone who values spiritual health/vitality of wisdom, I recommend Eknath Easwaran’s books, his “Dhammapada” for anybody wanting a taste of Buddhism, his “Bhagavad Gita” for anybody wanting a taste of Hinduism ( he’s Hindu ), & his “Upanishads” for a more in-depth taste of Hinduism.
For anyone wanting some non-Buddhist source for the dissolving-into-G-D end-state that souls/continuums do, please read “Maharshi’s Gospel” about the teachings of Hindu Ramana Maharshi, as it gives this plain.
It’s using language in a way utterly-confusing-&-alien to a Vajrayana like me: we say “mind” to mean all-3 dimensions of mind, soul/continuum, LifeMind, which begins in conception & shatters in death, AND SurfaceMind, the mirage projected by ego that we call “consciousness” … whereas Maharshi apparently uses “mind” to refer only to the 2 incarnation-specific ones, & refers to soul/continuum as “self”, then speaks of the profoundest level of meditation-AWARENESS as being no-self, only G-D, … but G-D is MADE OF souls, … so … to me that’s a peculiar & confusing way of rendering it.
However, I’ve no proof he was speaking English, & it may simply be a translation-difficulty!
Anyways, the underlying-principle’s the same: separate-from-G-D awareness, ie “self”-based awareness, is temporary, & it “sins” in proportion to ITS ignorance ( soul-ignorance ), & eventually it outgrows that, returning “home”, dissolving into OceanOfAllAwakeSouls.
The “Jacob’s Ladder” symbolization represented the endless-stream of souls/continuums, climbing “down Jacob’s Ladder” ( immersing themselves in individual-soul-experiencings, in universes ), then turning ( from outer-basis-for-meaning to inner-basis-for-meaning ) climbed up again ( returning home ).
The “Prodigal Son” parable symbolized an individual-soul doing this same thing, & the change from The Kingdom of Establishment, Without to The Kingdom of Souls, Within, is rather more explicit in that representation.
The “baptism” symbol-enactment is simply because unconscious-LifeMinds can only work-with symbol-enactments: they can’t think in cognitions.
So, to get an unconscious-LifeMind to begin working on understanding the concept of a soul/continuum immersing itself in universe, then coming-up again, afterwards … simply have unconscious AnimalsAndTribesTime people enact baptism, & it’ll help their unconscious-minds to understand the concept, & that’ll help them evolve to where the coming-out-from-the-stuckness-of-unconsciousness is more possible, see?
So, all 3 of those biblical tools/meanings were actually on the same single underlying-thing.
Another, unrelated, is the Book of Truth that John of Patmos was given, in Rev, to eat…
He ate it, & in his face, it was syrupy-sweet, but in his belly, bitter: exactly as symbol-truth is simplistic/idea/sweet, but experience-induced-understanding is bitter.
That is 1 of the profoundest psychology-truths in the whole world, & it’s hidden right-there, in plain sight, in their bible.
Truths abound!
We only have to see them for what they are, eh?
( :
_ /\ _
