• eldavi@lemmy.ml
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    8 days ago

    And fuck all the people who have worked peacefully for it in the ensuing over half a century?

    and pointlessly so, biden has given anyone permission for any gov’t official to refusal to certify or recognize a marriage by simply saying that it’s against their religion.

    and it will be reversed without more bricks.

    • PugJesus@piefed.social
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      8 days ago

      and pointlessly so, biden has given anyone permission for any gov’t official to refusal to certify or recognize a marriage by simply saying that it’s against their religion.

      I love that you combine the assertion of pointlessness of basic human fucking rights with outright misinformation.

      But if you had to rely solely on facts and morally sound arguments, you wouldn’t have anything.

        • PugJesus@piefed.social
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          8 days ago

          biden has given anyone permission for any gov’t official to refusal to certify or recognize a marriage by simply saying that it’s against their religion.

            • PugJesus@piefed.social
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              8 days ago

              I’m sure you have a source, then, considering the pre-Biden standing legal precedent that a government official can’t refuse to certify or recognize a marriage on religious grounds, and the Respect of Marriage Act signed into law by Biden forbidding any state or territory of the US from refusing to recognize lawful marriages.

              • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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                8 days ago

                the source is the act itself; dig deeper into it:

                “Diverse beliefs about the role of gender in marriage are held by reasonable and sincere people based on decent and honorable religious or philosophical premises. Therefore, Congress affirms that such people and their diverse beliefs are due proper respect.”

                – The Respect for Marriage Act (H.R. 8404) Section 2

                “shall not be required to provide services, accommodations, advantages, facilities, goods, or privileges for the solemnization or celebration of a marriage. Any refusal under this subsection…shall not create any civil claim or cause of action.”

                – The Respect for Marriage Act (H.R. 8404) Section 6(b)

                • PugJesus@piefed.social
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                  8 days ago

                  “Diverse beliefs about the role of gender in marriage are held by reasonable and sincere people based on decent and honorable religious or philosophical premises. Therefore, Congress affirms that such people and their diverse beliefs are due proper respect.”

                  “Due proper respect” here apparently being interpreted, by you, to mean “allowed to break established law and violate this very bill”?

                  “shall not be required to provide services, accommodations, advantages, facilities, goods, or privileges for the solemnization or celebration of a marriage. Any refusal under this subsection…shall not create any civil claim or cause of action.”

                  – The Respect for Marriage Act (H.R. 8404) Section 6(b)

                  Oh? Let’s check that actual section and see what it says

                  (b) Goods or Services.— Consistent with the First Amendment to the Constitution, nonprofit religious organizations, including churches, mosques, synagogues, temples, nondenominational ministries, interdenominational and ecumenical organizations, mission organizations, faith-based social agencies, religious educational institutions, and nonprofit entities whose principal purpose is the study, practice, or advancement of religion, and any employee of such an organization, shall not be required to provide services, accommodations, advantages, facilities, goods, or privileges for the solemnization or celebration of a marriage. Any refusal under this subsection to provide such services, accommodations, advantages, facilities, goods, or privileges shall not create any civil claim or cause of action.

                  So your line about officials being able to refuse to certify marriages was, predictably, misinformation and bullshit. But I’m sure you already knew that. Either that or your reading comprehension is as bad as the average fascist.

                  • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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                    8 days ago

                    you’re doing a lot of heavy lifting to avoid admitting you were wrong.

                    first off, my claim wasn’t “section 6(b) applies to gov’t officials.” i said biden has given permission for officials to refuse. you read “the act itself” as my only source, but i never said that was the sole source. you filled in the blank, then called me a fascist for it. solid work.

                    second, this idea that pre-biden precedent “forbade” gov’t officials from refusing to certify marriages? cute. ask kim davis how that ironclad precedent worked out. she straight-up refused, kept her job, and became a folk hero. so no, it wasn’t some pristine rule you’re pretending it was.

                    third, you breeze right past the part where i was right about the act expanding religious refusal rights for nonprofits, then pivot like that’s irrelevant. it’s not. because the logic doesn’t stay neatly in its lane. you carve out explicit statutory protection for one group’s “sincere beliefs,” and you think gov’t officials won’t notice? states will run with it, and they already are.

                    so no, it wasn’t “misinformation.” it was a prediction. and you still haven’t shown it’s false—just that you don’t like the delivery.