definitely_AI

I don’t think about it. I don’t understand the question, honestly. I see people as men or women, short or tall, blue eyed or brown eyed, they come they go. It’s not important to me how they see themselves, it doesn’t interfere with my daily business or interactions with people, I try my best to treat everybody with respect and mind my own business. They can think they’re the Queen of England for all I care.

Huh. I was going to write my own reply but I will defer to your argument, it perfectly encapsulates how I see it too, no notes.

I think it is a very topical argument- mind you I am genuinely not taking a position, I am exploring the logical consequences of the argument. There are pitfalls in the line or reasoning going on the argument that they are making. This is how philosophical discourse works. It’s how arguments and logic works. Being emotional about it is fine, but it’s not conducive to exploring the consequences of the argument.

The reason incest is frowned upon and often illegal is because of the danger it poses to any potential offspring.

The purely hypothetical counter argument here would be that what constitutes a “defect” or “danger” is highly subjective and prone to abuse. Where do we draw the line? Either there is no line and anyone can freely breed offspring, or we are in dangerous territory where we are determining which qualities we as a society deem “unwanted”. What do we mean by “defect”? What do we mean by “unwanted”?

At a population scale, genetic diversity is critical to survival of a population, and a collapse of genetic diversity through too much inbreeding tends to lead to a very unhealthy population

Well that is an argument from utility. Who is to say that people must subject themselves to the “critical survival of a population”? What if people don’t care? If they refused to, what would we do? Force them not to breed, by, say sterilizing them? Surely you see the issue here.

That’s ok. You don’t have to like what other people think. I don’t always like what other people think either. But it’s good to challenge and think through ones positions, I think everyone benefits from that. I think it’s critical, in fact.

(great thread BTW!)

Or homophobic, or transphobic, or other flavor of the month phobic.

If you disagree with their stated world view, you are being irrational, hateful, and must be censored. Which is ironic considering that what they demand is of the world to accept their version of reality at face value.

My controversial opinion is that if everyone has the right to self identification, I have the right to reject that identification. I am under neither logical nor moral obligation to accept another person’s beliefs about themselves or the world. Keep in mind I firmly assert that all people deserve to be treated with kindness and respect, I am making a descriptive not a normative statement. This is strictly a question of retaining the right to epistemological determination, “self identification” being based on that same exact fundamental premise.

Do you think people with autism, downs syndrome, or cognitive impairments should have kids?

Forming relationships with people that are different (as in, not relatives) helps avoid the bad parts of the family structure

That is an argument from utility, which can most certainly be debated. What constitutes “bad”? That is a subjective interpretation.

where the weirdness persists and grows, until it reaches weird shit.

And how do we define “weird shit”? Are “normal” relationships not “weird shit” and don’t they lead to “weird shit”?

their DNA and having their own biological kids as if it mattered.

Well, it matters to them. Therefore, it matters. Doesn’t it? It does to them.

Genuinely just poking at arguments here, I have no decided opinion either way.

People have the right to define themselves however they want. Likewise, people have the right not to share those determinations.

If others have the right to see themselves however they want, I have the right to see themselves however I want too. Reciprocity works like that.

You want the truth? YOU WANT THE TRUTH?

You can’t handle my ban record.

Nice try, sitting this one out.

See the problem with “identity” and what is “reality” and what things “are” or “are not” are profoundly complex philosophical questions that have been deeply, deeply thought about by the most brilliant minds of mankind since thousands of years, and they are yet to be solved.

That is why all claims about what something or someone “is” or “is not” is fraught with paradoxes that just collapse on themselves, and all claims to some sort of objective truth and finality are just fantasies.

What matters is to treat people with kindness and respect whoever they are. That’s what I think. Doesn’t mean we are obligated to believe whatever it is they believe. Everyone is free to believe what they want. That includes the right not to believe what someone else believes. That’s what I believe.

Literally nothing is stopping you.

You replied to me. I support equal rights and humane treatment for everyone, I simply reject the idea that your beliefs require me to surrender my own judgments about reality.

I have not been offensive in any way, you are the one resorting to domination techniques and accusations and emotional outbursts. If you don’t want to accept other people’s beliefs you can always just move along.

You accuse me of phobia. I am not phobic in the slightest. My sister is in a loving relationship with her girlfriend since ten years back, and my little brother is literally trans.

Please do not throw out frivolous accusations just because you have your ideas challenged, it is a vile practice and only outs you as dogmatic.

Well, people very often treat me as something I am not. They don’t know me. I don’t know me. Being human is hard. Knowing something about oneself is a very complicated proposition. Knowing something about others is even harder. What does it mean to “know oneself”? How can I expect others to know who and what I am if I can’t be certain myself?

If people thought I was a lizard I would question their sanity, for sure. Nobody in their right mind mistakes a person for a lizard. That is just crazy.

Why would you presume that questioning someone’s beliefs would mandate to treat them like shit? What a bizarre worldview. Everyone deserves to be treated with kindness and respect, whatever they believe.

But your beliefs about the world do not dictate my beliefs about the world. That is surely not a hard concept to grasp?

I take that as a yes, people can be wrong about themselves and who they think they are.

Why would you trust anything someone says about themselves outright? What if they’re crazy? What if they’re lying? What if they’re wrong? Is that impossible, or does every person on Earth have perfect knowledge of themselves and their true selves at all times, and always speak the truth?

How do we know anything at all? How do we know that we’re not all just living in an alien simulation and in fact are multidimensional dragons from some parallel universe?

Why would someone not be able to choose their gender. Gender is a social construct. Of course people can choose. People can choose to be gay too, if they want. People have free will, don’t they? I mean by your logic, why wouldn’t you believe someone telling you that they were Jesus Christ?